Comments on: The Six Yogas of Naropa – books http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/ Enlightenment or bust Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:37:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: hotboy http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-1032 hotboy Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:17:56 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-1032 Sitting here at my work .... I'm getting the heat in the abdomen, particulary behind the muscle wall while doing the vase breath. This is recent. The dynamic behind these meditations is fantastic!!I took refuge about six years ago after reading The Bliss of Inner Fire. That and Glen Mullin's translation and Readings was all I thought I really needed. That and a guru and empowerments. I don't know which country you're from, but the Samye Ling is here in Scotland. I'm not a monk. I drink far too much, smoke dope, etc., but meditate about four hours most days. You don't have to be "holy". Of course, it would be better and easier if you were! So they should sack me!! If you're into meditation anyway, The Bliss of Inner Fire ... well, I couldn't believe how wonderful it was. If all the books that were left after an apocalypse were those two ... good choice!! All the best. Hotboy Sitting here at my work …. I’m getting the heat in the abdomen, particulary behind the muscle wall while doing the vase breath. This is recent. The dynamic behind these meditations is fantastic!!I took refuge about six years ago after reading The Bliss of Inner Fire. That and Glen Mullin’s translation and Readings was all I thought I really needed. That and a guru and empowerments. I don’t know which country you’re from, but the Samye Ling is here in Scotland. I’m not a monk. I drink far too much, smoke dope, etc., but meditate about four hours most days. You don’t have to be “holy”. Of course, it would be better and easier if you were! So they should sack me!! If you’re into meditation anyway, The Bliss of Inner Fire … well, I couldn’t believe how wonderful it was. If all the books that were left after an apocalypse were those two … good choice!! All the best. Hotboy

]]> By: TC http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-1025 TC Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:09:16 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-1025 Thank you for the wonderful references. Although I agree that finding a competent teacher is crucial in one's advancement in their path, you still need to educate yourself (reading, experiencing) in the meantime. In fact, it will help you appreciate a good teacher when you find one. Thanks again... Thank you for the wonderful references. Although I agree that finding a competent teacher is crucial in one’s advancement in their path, you still need to educate yourself (reading, experiencing) in the meantime. In fact, it will help you appreciate a good teacher when you find one. Thanks again…

]]> By: Alex W http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-117 Alex W Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:43:28 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-117 Amos, hardly and of the content of the book to which I refer originated in Nyingma teachings. You don't give any reasons for your claim. Of the seven texts he treats in that work, only one, "The Yoga of the Long Hum", looks as if it might well have originated as some kind of terma, though curiously it lacks several features one would normally expect, and I don't know quite how to attribute it. More to the point, the translation has been fiddled with: the "translation" quite simply swaps around the assignments of wisdoms and Buddhas found in the text. It is hard to imagine that the translator, as a Tibetan speaker, could make such a gross error. It can only reasonably be assumed that this was done in the so-called "editing". It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the "editor", Evans-Wentz, thought that he knew better than his sources, and was going to "correct" and "improve" the text by making it correspond to a scheme with which he was comfortable. One strange thing is that in spite of this blatant mistranslation, there is no mention in the footnotes, which are apparently meant to lend an air of scholarly rigour to the work. Could Evans-Wentz perhaps not read even a single word of Tibetan? Or did he think that nobody apart from him would ever be able to decipher the Tibetan? It is shoddy, unscholarly, and reveals an attitude that throws doubt on the whole of his work. Altogether it is a good example of why Evans-Wentz' "translations" should be avoided if possible, or at least taken with a large pinch of salt. Amos, hardly and of the content of the book to which I refer originated in Nyingma teachings. You don’t give any reasons for your claim.
Of the seven texts he treats in that work, only one, “The Yoga of the Long Hum”, looks as if it might well have originated as some kind of terma, though curiously it lacks several features one would normally expect, and I don’t know quite how to attribute it.
More to the point, the translation has been fiddled with: the “translation” quite simply swaps around the assignments of wisdoms and Buddhas found in the text. It is hard to imagine that the translator, as a Tibetan speaker, could make such a gross error. It can only reasonably be assumed that this was done in the so-called “editing”. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the “editor”, Evans-Wentz, thought that he knew better than his sources, and was going to “correct” and “improve” the text by making it correspond to a scheme with which he was comfortable.
One strange thing is that in spite of this blatant mistranslation, there is no mention in the footnotes, which are apparently meant to lend an air of scholarly rigour to the work. Could Evans-Wentz perhaps not read even a single word of Tibetan? Or did he think that nobody apart from him would ever be able to decipher the Tibetan? It is shoddy, unscholarly, and reveals an attitude that throws doubt on the whole of his work.
Altogether it is a good example of why Evans-Wentz’ “translations” should be avoided if possible, or at least taken with a large pinch of salt.

]]> By: Amos Anon http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-114 Amos Anon Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:08:30 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-114 The primary deficiency in the works edited by Evans-Wentz is that the books mostly originated in Ningma teachings, but were edited by a Kagyu, who was a buracrat and not a full-time monk. The primary deficiency in the works edited by Evans-Wentz is that the books mostly originated in Ningma teachings, but were edited by a Kagyu, who was a buracrat and not a full-time monk.

]]> By: Alex W http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-113 Alex W Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:02:50 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-113 You know, I'd had a similar thought in the past, and it never occurred to me as I wrote the above. I think your point is entirely valid. I'll change the wording a bit! AW You know, I’d had a similar thought in the past, and it never occurred to me as I wrote the above. I think your point is entirely valid. I’ll change the wording a bit!
AW

]]> By: Chris Fynn http://chagchen.org/2009/07/03/the-six-yogas-of-naropa/comment-page-1/#comment-112 Chris Fynn Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:11:48 +0000 http://chagchen.org/?p=769#comment-112 Alex, Isn't it a bit of myth that <i>"In the past an ordinary person, even an ordained person in a monastery or nunnery, would not even have been allowed to look at these texts, let alone study them on their own." </i> - since anybody with the means who took the trouble to do so could have obtained say a block print copy of the Collected Works of Padma Karpo or the Collected Works of Tsongkhapa both of which contained texts on this practice. The very fact that Evans Wentz could get a copy and find a Buddhist practitioner willing to translate the text shows that they were not in practice that restricted even in the 1930s. Today there are detailed manuals in Tibetan showing even the yogic postures published as books in Tibet language which anyone can purchase. Whether or not a person in Tibet felt capable of studying such a text without a teacher, let alone trying to put the methods into practice is of course another matter. Similarly there is nothing stopping me from buying and reading a book on surgery - but it would be extremly unwise (and downright ileagal) for me to try and put the contents of that book into practice without first going through years of study and then practice under qualified teachers. - Chris Alex,

Isn’t it a bit of myth that “In the past an ordinary person, even an ordained person in a monastery or nunnery, would not even have been allowed to look at these texts, let alone study them on their own.” – since anybody with the means who took the trouble to do so could have obtained say a block print copy of the Collected Works of Padma Karpo or the Collected Works of Tsongkhapa both of which contained texts on this practice.

The very fact that Evans Wentz could get a copy and find a Buddhist practitioner willing to translate the text shows that they were not in practice that restricted even in the 1930s.

Today there are detailed manuals in Tibetan showing even the yogic postures published as books in Tibet language which anyone can purchase.

Whether or not a person in Tibet felt capable of studying such a text without a teacher, let alone trying to put the methods into practice is of course another matter.

Similarly there is nothing stopping me from buying and reading a book on surgery – but it would be extremly unwise (and downright ileagal) for me to try and put the contents of that book into practice without first going through years of study and then practice under qualified teachers.

- Chris

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